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Jessica Angima's avatar

Completely agree with your analysis of the failings of secularized meditation! However, I think it is important to share the full context of Klein's response to what Coates has just said about violence (and I am not even an Ezra Klein supporter / don't listen to his podcast unless someone shares a particular episode, like this one). 

Klein: “But so then what does that, there's a Buddhist meditation I like. This is a weird, weird place to go. But it goes like this. I'm of the nature to grow sick. I'm of the nature to grow old. I'm of the nature to lose the people I love. I'm of the nature to die. How then shall I live? And-

Coates: "Love that."

Klein: "Yeah, and I do it because sometimes you need the reminder. What I hear you saying, in a way, is we are of the nature too. And I think the place I'm trying to push is then how then shall we live? Because in this distinction you're making between like you would have been there correctly yelling at FDR, and I'm not like asking you, but like me, right? Like my work, my role."

Coates: "Can you answer that? Can you say what you, I think it's a good point. Like would you define for me how you see like what your role is?"

Klein: "I don't know what my role is anymore. I'll be totally honest with you, man. I feel very conflicted about that question. The role I want to have is a person curiously exploring his political and intellectual interests in political peacetime. The role I somehow have is sometimes that, but I am in the business, I'm a political opinion writer and podcaster and so on, and I'm in the business of political persuasion. And I feel like me and the people believe what I believe, not narrowly speaking, but, you know, like the whole broad coalition, have failed in a really consequential way. And I think it is-"

Coates: "You feel like you failed in your work."

Klein: "I think there are places I failed. I mean, I think there are things I got right too. Like I think we shouldn't have run Joe Biden again. I think I was right about that. I think I've gotten a lot right, but I think I've gotten definitely things wrong. But I think we are here now, right? That's what I would really say. And it is forcing me to rethink things I would prefer not to rethink.”

I hate to give wiggle room to a white man but as I listen, it doesn't seem that he is using the five remembrances here to spiritual bypass or as a tool to manage his internal state. In the context of the conversation, he says "we are of the nature to" in response to what Coates has shared about the nature of political violence, how even when you preach love, you can get shot. And he then goes on to add to the context to sharing the five remembrances by contemplating the question of "how then shall I live?" After saying that he doesn't know what his role is in the moment, he goes on to say that he knows that he has failed and that he is being forced to rethink things. 

As I listen, I don't hear him using the five remembrances as a form of stress management or performance optimization. In the context of the conversation, he actually is using it to do an ethical investigation and to contemplate the social and ethical dimensions of the five remembrances. Maybe not perfectly, I don't know anything about him or his meditation practice!

Thoughts? Again, I completely agree with your take on secularized meditation, I'm just not sure that is what is happening in this conversation. 

Jesi Vega's avatar

What a rich piece, Liz, and what a rich conversation in the comments. Prior to the election, when Klein was the only person talking in depth about getting Biden out of the race, I listened to him regularly, as I did post-October 7 when he did a remarkable job of bringing on Israelis and Palestinians to provide historical context to the massacre and subsequent genocide.

However, he has consistently revealed himself as more than a little smug in questioning what are basic issues of moral decency to people less privileged than himself. He's dangerously relativistic ("passive aggressive" as one of your commenters said) at a historic moment that demands backbone. I think what he may be perceiving in the conversation with Coates is that he --- as he is right now -- is not up to the task of the moment. And, worse, he may not have the capacity to transform his perspective especially if he wants to keep his job at The New York Times (don't get me started).

As my eldest child remarked about this conversation, while Ezra Klein is very good at listening to very smart people, he is also "not open to having his mind changed." In that, he's a sterling example of a nice white guy who just can't get that he just doesn't get it.

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