I appreciate how your articles stir me to think more deeply. What comes to mind is how Oprah promoted Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz, and Dr. Phil, Elizabeth Gilbert. All have turned out to be shills. Every one of them, including Oprah. All of them rich off of opportunism. If I could go back in time and take back all of the energy I squandered on these people, I gladly would. I have learned to be more discerning about where I place my energy as I have become older, and hopefully, wiser. Thank you, Liz.
"I appreciate how your articles stir me to think more deeply" is the GREATEST compliment you could give me, Linda, thank you! I actually wonder if Oprah has thoughts about her support of someone like Chopra or Dr. Oz....it would be FASCINATING to talk to her about this. My religious studies colleague Kathryn Lofton has a great book titled OPRAH: THE GOSPEL OF AN ICON. Highly recommend. Its an academic book, but fairly accessible.
Theyre merely bringing up the celebrity who promoted him heavily in context. Its not about her gender or race. Why youre making it about that is strange. Holding people accountable regardless of identity politics is essential.
Why? I don't think you should. Much of what Chopra has taught is valuable. The danger in situations like this is that people throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you benefitted from his books or meditation courses, as I did, then that's great and nothing to be ashamed of.
Another one that I don't see mentioned much is Wayne Dyer. Oprah and Gabby Bernstein rave about him (and call him an enlightened guru etc) - but what I've heard of him makes me shudder! I'm so glad when I see comments with other people realizing it's not all it seems.
Oh, and lest we not forget Werner Erhard's EST and dangerously have our "buttons pushed". I was surrounded by EST-ies at my newspaper workplace in my mid 20's and they were relentless pains in the ass trying to emotionally bludgeon me to participate in what to me was a cult.
We humans are drooling suckers for trends. Spiritual-seeking trends, consumer trends, gardening trends (Native Plants ONLY!), food trends, and literally any new shiny thing. We worship anything or anyone that we think will provide relevance into our lives.
well, just to add a little less negative perspective... most of those tendencies can be traced back to a behaviour that had a survival function under certain circumstances, but it has gone too far, or stopped being relevant. I can't tell 100% it's always the case, but often it tracks. Thinking in this way has helped me feel a bit more hopeful about humanity & our ability to adapt. We are in an era when we are en masse becoming more aware of many of those patterns. Hopefully from here we can start asking what behaviours make more sense and making better choices about them...
I had been wondering whether Oprah cared or realised what she was doing. But then this year, Oprah promoted Amy Griffin's book, The Tell, a book about recovering repressed memories. In brief, there are an overwhelming amount of questionable details in the book and it seems to be almost a mirror, 2025 version of Michelle Remembers, the book about recovering repressed memories of satanic abuse that sparked the whole memory wars. There is no chance that Oprah's team did not notice this -- they absolutely willfully again promoted repressed memory pseudoscience. Oprah knows exactly what she's doing.
The NYT recently 'exposed' the whole thing, though I don't agree with the angle they took. They frame it as though Amy stole this story from another woman. That could be possible, but I think they should have focused more on memory research and what we know about the idea of recovering repressed memories. They also didn't cover how the work of Bessel van der Kolk (The Body Keeps the Score) also influenced Amy. Many people don't realise that van der Kolk is a highly controversial figure in the memory space and chapter 13 of TBKS is an extremely dubious account of repressed memory research... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/24/nyregion/amy-griffin-memoir-psychedelic-drugs.html
It's quite a wild story with so many connections. Another notable point is that Amy is married to a billionaire hedge-fund investor who invested $1million in Rick Doblin's MDMA therapy. He also did underground MDMA therapy with the same underground. They were referred to these guides by Rick, the founder of MAPS/Lykos who tried to get MDMA+therapy approved by the FDA. Rick's "spiritual father" is Stan Grof, (https://digitalcommons.ciis.edu/stanislavgrof2014/12), a psychiatrist turned New Age/Esalen type who created Holotropic Breathwork. Coincidentally, Stan wrote the introduction to Ervin Laszlo's book "What is Reality", with a foreword by Deepak Chopra!
There's an article by Jules Evans with more on The Tell: https://www.ecstaticintegration.org/p/psychedelic-memories-of-childhood . But I also think Jules take on it doesn't connect how much the Grofian worldview/orientation of the underground guides set up the metaphysical orientation to have repressed memories come up (tbc: my substack is entirely about Grof, though, so maybe I'm biased, but justifiably so I think). I used to work as a sexual assault counsellor, and the entire starting point for the MAPS therapy/treatment of PTSD is extremely dubious and could set people up to recover repressed memories.
So glad you linked to Jules’ article. I was about to do just that. He is critical thinker and very aware of the pitfalls/dangers of wholly inadequate training programs, dodgy retreats, and unethical behavior in the psychedelic space (where “repressed memories” often originate). I am incredulous that Oprah would promote Amy’s book. But then… it’s all about the money, marketing, and mutual connections in their elite circles. I see the larger connections now thanks to you, Liz and Jules. And Rick Doblin is practically a caricature at this point.
I know Amy personally as do many of my friends and everyone thought the book had many red flags as did her whole story. Most believe that she did in fact steal the story (as the NYT proposed). Also, when asked by the NYT, Rick Dublin actually denied the likelihood that psilocybin could trigger a repressed memory and he didn’t support that premise of the book.
Ghislaine Maxwell's trial for being a sex offender wss centered around repressed memory. Ghislaine was convicted despite her multiple million dollar defense trying to allege #repressed memory# was controversial. Thereafter physicals and psychologists from all over the world about repressed memor and other sequeake to sexual abuse for decades. Bessel is der Volk has been am esteemed and highly influential physician for years. He lectures worldwide. He has been a renown world wide expert in sexual abuse for generations
Dredging up a vanity published book from 40 years ago is not a credible action.
Oprah has indeed spent decades reporting on sexuaj abuse. She has written books in conjunction with experts on child abuse which were best sellers. Nit picking her tendency to like memoirs is not a valid deliberation on her broad knowledge and commitment to exploring those topics regardless of the controversy.
Elizabeth Gilbert chose to focus on a 12 step program that relies on somewhat dated theories of relationship and addiction. A program she crrtainly believes is accessible to many. Whatever her marketing strategy she was certainky deeply affected by the death of her friend Rays. Raya was a terminally ill drug addicted woman who died in deep distress. Elizabeth Gibert had little to do with that outcome.
⁶It is certainly most disappointing to have someone refer to a vanity published book from 30 years old as a reference point. The fact you can slide that by certain people in this forum as a #concern# is pretty nebulous at best
For real? I really enjoyed studying his material! Hated the hours and going until 4am so I don't go to his events any longer but I thought his material was good. Tell me more!
Yes, I am afraid I am for real. He regurgitates books in his format, which happen to cost thousands of dollars. And there’s always more for those willing to pay for the extras. And it is the same song and dance.
This article and the comments are profound. Thank you. I am an intuitive and rarely get validation or explanation as to why something or someone doesn’t resonate.
I am often left unimpressed or Ickes out by those who have been promoted. I lived myself going against my intuition because that is what predators trained me to do. As I came into my own though I discovered how valuable my intuition is and why they wanted to gaslight me out of it.
I never understood the devotion followers had. The hypnotism they seems to fall under.
Just please tell my Maya Angelou isn’t on anyone’s list.
Jade I am exactly the same. My body repulses at certain people. I have no reason other than a deep intuition - Winfrey, Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Shetty he was particularly bad, Tolle is another. And for some unknown reason the current ‘guru’ Gabor Mate. There’s something so off about him. Then there are others who I am drawn to. I don’t get this hero worship. Discernment is key.
It’s as if people are addicted to giving over their agency. They left religion and just followed new messiahs of their choosing instead of finding the Source inside. Discernment. The exact right word.
Tolle used to give me the willies while all my friends thought he was the cats arse! I liked Gabor for a minute ten years ago but he puts me off now too. I never liked Chopra. I tried to read his first book. Word salad with no actual directions on how to use his models except pay handsomely for something. He made my skin crawl too.
I am happy to see that I am not alone in these gurus giving me the willies. My bestie met Wayne Dyer and swears by him but I get the willies from his works too. Esther Hicks/Abraham as well. I trust those more than I trust their millions of followers.
Myself... My own higher Self... I feel that's the direction we are all being pointed into now, go deeper into the root of our own being. Much good luck to you!
There are so many frauds and shills getting book deals, doing speaking gigs, etc. Our society is built on capitalism rather than integrity and compassion.
In my experience the best spiritual teachers with the most profound personal experience and NOT just theoretical knowledge - are not big names, and are easily overlooked.
That example imho is not exactly in line with the topic of substack. Being anti vax has nothing to do with being a fraud. Any person with some common sense and lots of research will reach the same conclusion :)
" If I could go back in time and take back all of the energy I squandered on these people, I gladly would." I love this, and I agree. But we need to take comfort in the fact that we were able to move past them (and in my case, before I was able to see through them). So many vulnerable people are still clinging to the hope of a better future that is being sold as something that's within reach if they can only believe/buy/work hard enough.
This... I loved Liz Gilbert and then this Summer something shifted as numbers of fellow bipoc people outlined the harm that occurred with Raya and how white women get to write books and make money of these abuses of power and ills, in the name of spiritual transformation.
Yea. That book turned me too. Her patronizing behavior towards Reya was despicable, as well as her know all about addiction and recovery preachiness was nauseating. All making a buck from an Oprah recommended book. Ugh.
Same for me. I’ve also learned to recognize how all the shills mentioned were selling merchandise all along. It’s so disheartening to see how so many are willing to sell out & take advantage of people truly trying to find internal peace, for greed & celebrity.
Thank you for this thoughtful perspective. A big yes to everything you said, especially this: "What they reveal about us—about what we want, what we're willing to ignore, what we're afraid to face—is the real story."
As a marketing academic, I've studied how marketing preys on consumer vulnerabilities, creating dependencies that promise satisfaction but ultimately reduce wellbeing. Many in the self-help world—Deepak, Joe Dispenza, Jay Shetty—have mastered this: they meet people's fundamental need to end suffering while not requiring them to make the uncomfortable changes sometimes, often needed for real transformation.
This brings to mind the 8th-century Indian Buddhist monk Shantideva, who said (paraphrasing): people desperately want to end their suffering but continue to engage in the very thoughts, behaviors, and patterns that create it.
Did these gurus help some people along the way? I'm sure. Did they increase harm? Also yes.
This is where this kind of self help becomes more dangerous than other kinds of marketplace behaviors. Spiritual materialism is more insidious than other forms because people don't recognize it AS materialism. They consume spiritual books, apps, and workshops thinking they're becoming better people, but without addressing root causes, they're just spiritually bypassing their experience. They feed their ego: "I'm spiritual because I meditate."
I left full-time marketing to teach mindfulness, thinking people need more mindfulness than marketing. Instead, I found that even within the mindfulness world, people resort to marketing tactics for personal gain, regardless of harm to end users.
There ARE genuine teachers—Joseph Goldstein, Thich Nhat Hanh—who've worked selflessly from the original Buddhist teachings: we can become aware of our default habits AND learn the steps to change them. But that requires effort, and it's less popular than the quick fixes from self-care gurus.
You're doing important work educating people about the dark side of what's considered sacred. Have you, or anyone else studied the costs and benefits of the self-help industry? That research is needed.
Shalini--what a rich comment! And totally agree with the idea that quick fixes and simple affirmations are way easier to sell then what I would call the conviction and discipline of devotional practices. Question....am I right to remember that Chopra's academic appointments are actually in business schools? Wondering what you think of that given your background in marketing!
I didn't know that he held academic positions in business schools. Business schools can invite industry folks to teach but no clue if he taught or just held an honorary position.
In my observations, it's not just spirituality-based mindfulness content that suffers from this. I'm frequently irked by the gimickiness of Ryan Holiday's Stoicism content, including his books, and view him as doing philosophical bypassing (instead of spiritual bypassing, since it's entirely secular) in much of it. His marketing background is very obvious to me, as a social scientist, and obnoxious to me as a disabled female Stoic trying to share this philosophy (which has been a core part of my aspects of thriving for the last 30 years) with others who have intersectionality aspects that don't align in practical application ways to what he's putting out. There are a few other, better Stoic writers... almost all of them male, and all of them with privilege-centered blindspots in their work that make me twitch, though William Irvine and Ward Farnsworth are worth reading while remembering that they are coming from a class-privileged white male vantage point that sometimes slips into their writing in ways they're clearly not fully conscious of. But none of those writers have even a tenth of the following that Holiday has, and Holiday's work feeds into Broicsm (Bro Culture with a thin veneer of ancient philosophical wisdom) which constantly annoys me as a BoyMom.
Have you seen similar issues in other contexts? Are you aware of what I'm talking about here? Any ideas of ways to remediate these situations?
Thanks for the comment Ahmie...yes, I see this is a LOT of spaces. In fact my next book BEYOND WELNESS actually starts each chapter with a problematic figure/movement/trend and those chapters range from yoga to psychedelics to to fitness! I think the longevity tech bros are also repeat offenders.....
Yes! I was a devoted listener to the Bulletproof podcast until I realized that every time I listened to Dave Asprey, I wanted to rush out and buy whatever it was his guest was selling, convinced it was going to add another 10 to 20 years to my life. One thing I realized is that these people have studied NLP to persuade their listeners to buy the thing or to sign up for the conference. I don’t trust that.
Been away from Substack working on family stuff for the last several weeks - looking forward to your new book. I hope the audio is available on Hoopla like your "Stealing My Religion" book is, so I can promote it with the economically-diverse (including impoverished) people I am trying to build community with. I'm constantly worried that I'm going to give off vibes of the kind of harmful leader that these problematic figures are. Your work overlaps a lot with what I'm trying to do with rebuilding the availability of neurological co-regulation opportunities for folks. I'm seeing an urgent need of that for my sons' GenZ agemates. They don't know where to look for healthy guidance, and too many of them are getting sucked in by these charlatans.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I hear you and agree with you. Holiday's book was recommended by the leadership at our business school. I haven't read it but understand what you're saying.
I think it's a combination of things: genuine charisma, narcissistic confidence, and an intuitive understanding of what people want to hear. They're not burdened by the humility that comes from actually watching your own mind closely enough to see how little control we have, how much we don't know, how hard real change is.
There's a particular personality type that thrives in this space—someone who believes deeply in their own narrative, who mistakes their own peak experiences or insights for universal truth, and who has the marketing savvy to package it in a way that feels accessible and aspirational. They're not lying, exactly. They genuinely believe they have the answer. And that certainty is magnetic.
Meanwhile, those of us who do the work know that transformation is messy, nonlinear, and requires sustained effort. We know we can't promise results because every person's path is different. We set realistic expectations because we've seen what happens when people are sold false hope. We teach skills systematically because that's what actually creates lasting change.
But here's the brutal truth: uncertainty doesn't sell. Nuance doesn't scale. "This will take years of consistent practice and you'll still struggle sometimes" is not a compelling Instagram caption.
And so we're left with this impossible tension: do good work that serves people deeply, knowing it will never have the reach of the quick-fix gurus? Or compromise our integrity to compete in the same attention economy?
I chose the former. You did too. But it's lonely sometimes, isn't it? Watching people flock to teachers who promise them ease while we're over here saying, "Actually, this is going to be really hard, and I can't guarantee anything except that you'll learn to be with your experience differently."
That's why these conversations are important, and collaborating and uplifting authentic voices has become a priority for me.
Thank you for this comment. I am struggling in this space at the moment. After 16 years as a chiropractor, 6 in the energetic chiropractic world and 3 in the “spiritual” space I burnt out trying to build in this capitalist model.
Watching so many people gain notoriety because they can sell while I live in grey zones.
And now I’m trying to build something new, but I feel the isolation, like a village medicine woman without a village.
Keeping faith that my work will reach the right people isn’t the problem. Faith is easy, but faith doesn’t feed my children.
I feel that "like a village medicine woman without a village" in my core, as well as the stress about feeding our children. Here with you, Mama, in whatever ways that can matter. You are not alone.
Capitalism sucks. Communism is unfortunately too easy to turn into a cult that does harm. Finding some middle ground for my descendants to partake of feels like my life's work these days, and it's exhausting.
I just followed you because of this comment - I want to continue this conversation. Hell yes with the loneliness. I have five sons, ages 21, 18, 15, 13, and 9. The older four are ALL falling prey to some of this nonsense at various times. I can only buffer for them so much, and sometimes they run full-force into the guardrails that I've put in place (which is part of what's had me away from Substack for the last few weeks - guardrail reinforcement as well as holiday distractions, please excuse the tardiness of my reply).
I have comments on my Substack paywalled just to keep the moderating labor minimized. If you subscribe for free and I don't comp your membership, send me a message reminding me of where we've encountered each other before and I'll comp the membership as soon as I see it. That goes for anyone who reads this.
I think part of it is that there are very few women writing - most of us seem to be too busy doing the work of living a good life, and the invisible labor involved in that sucks up too much time with vacuuming and dishes to do the authoring and self-promotion to get featured. :/ That's the struggle I've been in for the last month.
The few female Stoic authors I know of either have no kids, or only 2. The ones who have kids give a whiff of class privilage when it comes to help with housework & childcare that I do not have access to, plus I have twice as many kids as they do (I have five sons ages 9-21, all of them still living at home with their father, paternal grandparents, and me - we've been a 3 generation household since 2006 and sandwich generation stress is often overwhelming even when there's no commute involved in the eldercare).
I always try to recommend freely available content, particularly in the current economy, so that's my focus right now. William B. Irvine is my favorite modern Stoic, and he's active on Substack (I don't know how to tag in here). He has a new book coming out in January, and his "A Slap in the Face" is available as an audiobook free on Hoopla if you've got access to a public library that offers that service. Ward Farnsworth's books are available on Hoopla in both audiobook and ebook (his "The Practicing Stoic" is an excellent primer). On YouTube, Vox Stoica (who I also support on Patreon) is a good source - his "Summary of the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius" is so good that I bought it on Audible specifically so I can set my Alexa device to play it twice a day (as I'm getting moving in the morning, and as I'm winding down at night) to keep my mindset framed. He narrated "Practical Stoicism" by Grey Freeman and has that available for free on his YT channel as well (also so good that I bought it on Audible to be able to get it playing hands-free when I need to recenter my mind). Stoic Coffee Break podcast by Erick Cloward is good.
All of these lack a female perspective. I'm trying to carve out time to add my voice to that, for those reasons, but as a mom it's hard to carve out time for it. I'm more active on Facebook than on here, and most of what I post is publicly viewable with friends-of-friends able to comment. I'm trying to move my long-form writing done on a physical keyboard (most of what is posted on FB is from a mobile device) to my Intersectional Stoicism Substack. None of the content is paywalled on my Substack but comments are paywalled just to keep from having me distracted by moderating nonsense - drop me a message if you subscribe for free and I don't comp your membership to let you comment. I'm not trying to make money off of my Substack, just don't know how else to balance the time & attention it'll demand. Anyone who is contributing authentic thoughtfulness is welcome into the conversation for free.
I agree with a lot of what your saying, but I don’t agree on Joe Dispenza’s work. It can be used superficially, but his Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself guides the reader thru this work that you are talking about. The whole book is about becoming aware enough of who you are and then working to dissolve those habits And replace them with a new vision of how you want to interact with the world. You can’t do the meditation part until you’ve identified your character flaws first. Does he still make a shit ton of money off of people? Yes indeed, which has caused me to resist his work. It’s still spiritual/psychological capitalism, but that’s the framework of our entire society. How do you reach your audience of consumers, if you don’t give them something to consume? It would be interesting to see if this can ever be done. Even Christianity has been sold to us by Paul and his amazing PT Barnum trickery. We don’t know anything else.
Thank you, Janet. You're raising exactly the tension I sit with constantly. I have no doubt that Dispenza, Chopra, and others have helped many people along the way—just as I said in my original comment. And you're right that if his book guided you to become aware of your habits and work to change them, that's meaningful.
Your question—"How do you reach your audience of consumers if you don't give them something to consume? Can this ever be done differently?"—is the question I am very interested in. It's the paradox I've wrestled with in my research and in building my own practice.
Sitting with all these contradictions led me to a reflection published here today that speaks directly to why we're drawn to certain teachers and how to discern authentic guidance from spiritual entrepreneurship. It explores the frameworks I use to distinguish between teachers operating from a service model versus an empire model and would love to hear what it brings up for you: [https://substack.com/home/post/p-179566278]
To your point about capitalism—yes, we all operate within this system. But I believe there's a spectrum between fair exchange (charging sustainably for genuine value) and extraction (using sophisticated marketing to exploit people's suffering while overpromising outcomes). The former is necessary. The latter can cause harm.
Can it be done differently? I'm trying to find out.
I've also explored this academically in my research on expanding mindfulness from individual stress reduction to collective sustainable wellbeing in the context of marketing and consumer wellbeing. If you're interested, here's the peer-reviewed work: https://doi.org/10.1111/joca.12542. Happy to email you the full paper if you like.
I’m a Sedona local and Dr Joe makes an appearance here just about every year with Greg Braden. Lets just say after awhile you hear a lot of the behind the scenes chit chat about these people and you couldn’t pay me to attend Joes workshop after what I’ve learned about his character.
I agree with the original text. “ we created this”. People are looking for a beacon of light! If you pay a huge amount of money to attend an event, that is a red flag! So many believe they , “are worth it”! Mel Robbins is another one I have a cringe factor with. It’s all about the brand and what is selling. There are many wonderful “thought, or spiritual leaders out there Not selling their “brand”. It is up to us to not fuel their egos.
Interesting you bring up Paul, the self proclaimed Jesus promoter. A recent foray back to organized church attendance lasted 2 years. Then I was out. Can’t get past my belief they’ve made JC an idol, promoting propaganda he never said and how do we know since there was such a dearth of ‘present time’ records for what actually happened. And despite him saying he was pointing the way and not a god himself.
No pressure, just in case it helps you find community that nourishes you - consider looking into Unitarian Universalists for "organized" church. I'm a lay community minister in that denomination; it's omnist not specifically Christian (the minister of the congregation my family attends self-labels as a UU Buddhist, there are many UU Atheists, and many other faith blends - one of my newest UU friends is a UU Jew - and there are several UU Christians in my congregation). My mother was raised United Church of Christ, which might also be a good place to look for community that isn't so idolizing of JC while being more focused on Christianity if that's what you need in your life.
Just putting this out there in case you're struggling with loneliness.
This piece stirred something in me, in a good and not so good way. I agree with so much of your critique around the dangers of idolization and the shadow side of the Western guru archetype. At the same time, I kept thinking about the people who genuinely experienced real inner transformation through these teachings, and how revelations like this can make them question the validity of their own growth. I ended up writing a companion response exploring that tension- the value of the teaching even when the teacher is deeply flawed, and why these figures resonate so strongly in a spiritually starved culture.
Sharing it here in case it adds another layer to the conversation.
I started practicing yoga in 1987 in a small studio in the Fine Arts Building in Portland. It was a little known thing. The teacher was forever warning us about the guru syndrome that guru simply means teacher and the "guru" is found inside of us. Stressed yoga being about service and serving others the ultimate goal. Several years later certifications were created, train8ng cost a lot, and the cerification was a requirement everywhere. Yoga got famous, yoga fashion very popular and the essence of the practice got lost. Another ancient discipline commodified,sad
I dislike how it’s split up - meditation, gymnastics, mindfulness, breathwork , it works all together synergistically as you do your practise - and so much comes from self practise.
Two of my teachers learnt directly from krisnamanchari and desikachar(excuse spelling auto correct) - elusive, blunt but woooaaahhh ✨
I’ve found similar things in the yoga world. It’s been sitting in the sutras and being honest about my own life and seeing all of it that has allowed me to evolve. Not this, not that, just is.
A lot of western yoga even when taught by eastern lineages isn’t even yoga. We do it the same way we do life. Separated from everything else and rush, rush, rush. It’s a stretching class at best with a circus contortion progression pathway and a rest at the end.
Agree Carla. I see the parallels in the yoga world as well. Where as the Patanjali Yoga sutra describes the eight limbs of yoga, in the West, yoga focuses on the postures. Just like mindfulness focuses only on meditation and the rest of the eight fold path is forgotten, which includes right thinking, speech, and livelihood.
Yoga is to be lived experience, not just something we do in a dance class which requires discipline because bodies must look a certain way for an audience. There is no audience for yoga practice. It's called practice because perfection isnt the goal, leading a life of service as a continuously evolvimg human is. The practice is the goal. Yogis practice until all humans perfect body mind and spirit
Great question, Helena. I've never participated in Dispenza's courses and can't speak to the benefits people experience. They must offer something valuable or people wouldn't return or recommend them. My resistance has more to do with what he's marketing and how he's framing the work.
When he talks about "demystifying the mystical" and teaches meditation to create abundance by changing thought patterns—yes, there's work involved. But it ignores the deeper work of being human: examining the root causes of our suffering, which lie in attachment and greed, and understanding our responsibilities as interconnected beings.
Here's what concerns me:
His approach suggests that problems lie in our habitual thinking patterns—which is partially true—but it ignores the systemic issues that create those patterns in the first place. It bypasses questions like:
-Why are people stressed, sick, and struggling?
-What are the collective conditions creating individual suffering?
-How do our consumption choices affect others and the planet?
-What's our responsibility beyond personal optimization?
In focusing solely on individual manifestation and abundance, teachers like Dispenza (and Chopra) contribute to a worldview that prioritizes individualistic, self-centered wellbeing—often at the expense of collective wellbeing. And ironically, because we're profoundly interconnected, this approach doesn't even serve individual wellbeing in the long run.
An example:
Yes, I could "manifest a Ferrari" if I really wanted one. But if it's contributing to greenhouse gases more than a hybrid or electric car, am I learning to make conscious choices? Am I waking up to my highest human potential or going into a deeper sleep of our separation?
This is also Liz's broader critique of many secular versions of mindfulness and spirituality: when we strip out the wisdom and ethical components, we're left with techniques that help individuals cope with—or even exploit—harmful systems, rather than transform them.
That's the gap. And that's why, even if people find temporary relief or benefit, I believe this approach ultimately falls short of what authentic practice offers: liberation through understanding our interconnectedness and acting skillfully from that awareness.
So great that this thread expanded toward inclusivity, connection and wholeness. It clarifies how ‘gurus’ and other notables the marketing aspect of their shticks. I have oriented myself to inclusion of the earth and all her interconnections as a model for looking at humans. Testing teachings based on inclusion users the bar for me. The older I’ve gotten the more I find no boundaries when I take the time to see and be. Thank you for sharing these common sources here. 💫
Like Linda, I also made the connection with the other people Oprah promoted who have shown us who they really are… it just feels like 2025 has been the year the mask came off. Painful to see people I admired, and inspired me for who they truly are but at the same time making me realize that the rich are not people to aspire to be. I now look in my community for spiritual guidance, inspiration and love
Ordinary people who everyday live through suffering in a real way not in the made up way these fools do. We don’t need them, we need each other
Your article suggests that society has lost its way more than we think.
My mission has been to expose our corrupt schools and the fact that they would unravel democracy. In 2010 I received a call from Oprah’s researcher with my 2008 book in his hands. He had my book because a member of my organization knew Maya Angelou and brought it to her home. She sent me a thank you note for my book. She obviously sent my book to Oprah.
All these years I thought Oprah didn’t want to take on all that power as this is a huge conspiracy against the people. I accepted this was too much for one person—even her. Now I’m wondering. She could have made me famous and saved democracy rather than….
This is disappointing. At least we know Maya Angelou was authentic. I’ll hang on to that!
It proves how hard it is for people to not live transactionally. It also proves how much we need authentic schools, what we don’t have. Check out WhiteChalkCrime.com and EndTeacherAbuse.org. It’s a miracle there are as many good people as there are! We do need to work together.
And this very statement, made manifest somehow in our highly individualized lives, might be the very medicine we need to stop from doping out and making these people bigger than life.
I also wonder what this is like for her. She’s also struggled with very personal things in her life and I wonder how much of this was just us being taken along for the ride as she tries to figure herself out. And along the way things went awry. There’s a part of me that has compassion for her, doesn’t mean I’m ok with it, but compassion.
I was deeply embedded in New Age/neoHindu spirituality for over two decades before realizing I was a victim of a talented con artist. Now I can see “gurus” for what they are and was wondering when Deepak Chopra would be revealed to be a fraudulent grifter. 90+ books? If his teachings are so good, why do we need so many of them?
Spirituality without understanding psychology is a recipe for imbalanced power dynamics and harmful guru worship.
I was also shocked by the number of books. And you have a good point when you ask, why would you need that many books to get his ideas in teaching across?
That sounds like quite a journey, Joelle. I can relate to the extent that I grew up with a fundamentalism that was normalized (Christian in my case)-so can empathize with what it can be like to see cult-like beliefs from the inside: and then later, to question everything until it is significantly stripped away. It's quite a head-trip. But without even the mildest suggestion that this makes any kind of brainwashing okay: I am grateful to those insights in the world that come about from such experiences, and are needed in our culturally fragmented time. What has your experience been like? / I like your comment about spirituality without psychology being dangerous. Just curious: have you read Ken Wilber? He argues for a similar thing: that there are multiple forms of maturity that contribute towards what it is to grow or be enlightened...
I share your insight, Lucy. While I would not wish my experience on any young woman (or new adult), it has given me insider knowledge into how people are deceived and manipulated. If it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't have thought it was possible. I had been trained as a girl growing up in New York City to be aware of physical and sexual violence, but nothing had prepared me for psychological and spiritual abuse. Learning from other cult survivors (especially Daniella Mestyanek Young) and reading survivor memoirs, both cult and other forms of abuse, have been hugely helpful in developing my understanding. I haven't read Ken Wilber. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it.
Thanks for getting back to me Joelle. And I hear you. It can be quite the Matrix-moment type of experience.. so sorry that you went through that kind of complexity too. With Ken Wilber: I found him a great resource for mapping how cycles of development intersect, and how growth of all kinds can remain inclusive of learning throughout all stages. / And thanks for the Daniella Mestayanek Young suggestion. I haven’t read her yet: but she sounds great. I’ll have to look here up:>
She’s fantastic. Her published memoir is Uncultured, and her nonfiction book, The Culting of America, comes out on Jan 21, along with a companion deconstruction workbook. Her work focuses on analysing the cult paradigm, regardless of whether the group calls itself that or not. It was hugely validating for me when she clearly identified my story as cultic indoctrination. She’s very active on TikTok and Instagram.
Do you have a favorite/recommended Ken Wilber book?
If I could post anonymously, I would be more bold in what I have say about this. However, let's just say I am a formally trained MD who has also studied Ayurveda in depth and been part of spiritual communities.
The era of the sage on the stage is OVER.
Even if it takes a generation or two for that understanding to grow.
The points you bring up will reach more traction because they are rooted in very fundamentally important developmental aspects for us as a collective.
Self agency and being in the messy, more uncomfortable parts is how we can move through and digest the breadth of uncomfortable conversations that need to happen.
There is a tier of these men who teach about health and wellness that are remarkably incongruous in their positioning. Instead through a guise of this and that, they strive for power and prestige without ever pausing to linger in a question if harm was done.
SO MUCH more to be said though for now I’ll hold off.
You have articulated enough powerful sentiment I'll be sharing this post with professional friends with whom I have spoken extensively about this.
Thanks for you comment! I take you are a practitioner of Ayurveda (or did you leave that behind?). I ask because I have really loved learning about it/and I'm a fan which is why Chopra's version always seemed so diluted...
I am an integrative MD and still learn and share extensively around Ayurveda. Chopra was not my first teacher - it was Dr Lad who character has been beyond reproach from my pov. It’s a potent and powerful system of living and healing which in fact informs much of modern wellness culture and lifestyle medicine (vis-a-vis Dean Ornish who had a Vedic teacher).
Dr Lad was a teacher of mine too and I am an Ayurvedic Practitioner and Bodyworker.
And I have nothing good to say about the Ayurvedic Institute and Dr Lad any longer. He is full of parlor tricks to me.
He supports vaccines and transgenderism. And I was told he is owned by an assistant teacher while I studied with him in India. Owned by whom? I do not know. And I definitely do not trust the new owners of the school.
My greatest teacher of Ayurveda is not famous and taught me the true gold in Ayurveda, the stuff I can bring back to the people, the simplicity, the nectar.
Dr Lad lives and teaches in my area now. And last time I saw him here, I was very surprised what came out of his mouth.
That is disappointing to hear, and I’m aware that the Ayurveda and spiritual communities hold both profound wisdom and, at times, complicated dynamics. My own study with of Ayurveda included time with deeply humble teachers in India as well as individuals who were more invested in performance or manipulating Western fascination. Learning it in the west continues to be very challenging - look at the politics now with NAMA. It taught me that discernment is essential.
That said, I want to be clear: a teacher’s views on vaccines or transgender people are not measures of their integrity in Ayurveda or their capacity to support others in their self healing or disease management. Those are personal, modern-day issues that each individual navigates for themselves, and they aren’t a litmus test for “true” or “false” teaching or healer.
What matters to me is the depth of knowledge, humility, and alignment in how we choose to serve others. We each ultimately have to find the teachers who resonate with us and cultivate the wisdom within ourselves.
When it comes to men, they are privileged in all societies, and as such, they are never asked by anyone, let alone their own self, “am I doing harm?”. Further, when they become financially successful they attribute this to being better and smarter and think that they have earned it, I.e. there is no luck, nepotism, etc that helped them along the way. Then, the ego, which is already too large in most men, grows even larger and quickly they become lost to humility. There may be a few exceptions, but very few.
I love that you went here: “Third, we get honest about our own complicity. What were we hoping to gain from teachers like Chopra? What shortcuts were we hoping to take?” What responsibilities were we hoping to avoid? This is the powerfully perspective we need to have. Thank you for sharing this.
yeah, it’s delicate because you don’t want to blame victims, but I really felt like in that situation his sexual misconduct was the culmination of a long line of micro misconducts that everyone just said “trust the teacher” about. It was such a learning experience. And same with Deepak Chopra. And I am pointing the finger at myself, in both instances.
this is a REALLY good point, and I hope I don't come across as victim blaming. I have in mind less people who get pulled into some of this abusive relationships/communities and more the fact that folks like me (progressive, SBNR, seekers) love to blame "the guru" when really the American Spiritual Wellness industry has just been giving us what we say we wanted--a lot of short cuts, personal curation, quick fixes, promises of certainity, etc. and THAT create empire like Chopra's (and then we are like, ugh, he's creepy). But those of us who are self-righteous? I think it helps to consider our role in creating the monsters under our expensive hot yoga mats.
No you don’t! I just know from experience actually trying to talk in community about this when abuse happens it gets real sensitive around that real fast, which, fair. But also, we need to talk about it.
Totally. I left a sangha because of teacher misconduct and this is how I felt about that situation too. Yeah he is a problem but he is not the only problem. This community’s culture around him was a BIG problem.
Excellent analysis. To use religious language (proud Methodist here), what so many of us want is a messiah. We want someone to reassure us that we aren’t the problem, and that no matter what the problem is they can fix it for us. But, as you noted, we don’t want to do the work. We want the messiah to it for us which reduces us to simple consumers. There is no liberation in such a relationship.
Have to say, I’ve really been wondering this year if the whole wellness search is keeping me stuck & longing for a place that is unattainable, vs working thru my real life. Your points about lack of accountability and the vague nature of spirituality are thought provoking and refreshing. In business we used to say, follow the money and wellness is big business these days.
The dialog between Sam Harris and Deepak Chopra really brings up what's you're saying and Sam calls him out for it! Yet like you said there will be people who believe in him and will ignore all this. Did you see the documentary his son made? Decoding Deepak. Curious what you thought about that...
True wellness comes from studying our thoughts, emotions, and actions in real life. Yes we can go on retreats or even retreat daily for meditation but the purpose of that is to clear the clutter to see the default patterns in everyday life that are causing stress and suffering and we're learning the skills and strategies to transform those habits by bringing real change to how we live, learn, consume, relate...
I’ve been following Chopra for 25 years.! I do like what he says, promotes. Have a number of his books. But this Epstein connection blows my mind. How could I have been so naive? Feet of clay?
What is outlined here is a large part of what is shaping the community-building work that I'm trying to do, to support our needs for neurological co-regulation as a social species. SO MUCH harm has been done by guru-types (within and outside of religious institutions, including purely secular ones), and my efforts sometimes trigger trauma responses in those who have encountered the kind of abuses by these men. I'm a little more successful at this effort, I think, because I'm female -- but at the same time, the roles that my femaleness has me in beyond this community work take up a lot of my time & attention so my reach is minimal. I am often frustrated by how these men build audiences that exploit vulnerable people while claiming to be healers... meanwhile I'm over here in a not-totally-financially-secure situation with my family feeling unethical to put a cash-price on access to my services because the population I serve with the highest level of skill (disabled people and parents of minor children) are often more financially vulnerable than I am.
I'd love to explore ideas of how to build structures of accountability and "loving criticism" to build this work in healthy, sustainable ways that are accessible to people with the kinds of wisdom that come from embodied experience (but not financial access). I cannot afford to purchase memberships into a bunch of different organzations that claim to provide accountability frameworks to protect vulnerable seekers, other than the one that I'm a member of (Unitarian Universalist Society for Community Ministries -- aka UUSCM; anyone who ever has issue with the way I conduct myself can contact them to be put in touch with their Good Officer and I have accepted that accountability/oversight relationship as a condition of my membership). What I've been spending time on is doing as much personal vetting of various available experts/spiritual directors/life coaches/etc that advertise their services and building what I hope are reciprical "loving critic" relationships with them, so I can more confidently refer people to resources that are less likely to harm them AND be a person that they can turn to for support/mediation if harm happens anyway. That is within my capacities and control to offer, at least, but it's a LOT of work.
This is one of the clearest explanations I’ve seen of how charismatic spirituality fills the exact void our culture creates. It’s not really about Chopra at all, it’s about our craving for transformation without accountability, depth without sacrifice, and meaning without discomfort. You articulated that dynamic with precision, and it’s exactly the blind spot that allows spiritual figures to operate without ethical guardrails.
I’m confused by the animosity toward Oprah. She isn’t promoting Dr Phil, Oz, and the like now. She was awakening and exploring her spirituality in front of the world. She was sharing what she herself was exploring, and in doing so, she woke many of us up to exploring our deeper selves. I think it’s ok to change your mind along the way as you grow on your journey.
I think we all benefit from exploration and then tuning into what feels right for us and ignoring what doesn’t. I appreciated her public exploration. She isn’t in charge of the evolution of the people she had as guests on her show. It’s ok to change our minds. To take what resonates and let go of what doesn’t. She herself, like us, and all of these people, are just spiritual beings have our own human experiences.
Most of this I agree with. Oprah is first and foremost, a business woman, and she is great at that. And certainly she didn’t know where where she platformed would end up and im sure disagrees a lot of them in terms of their values and politics. But she’s also attracted to pseudoscience, and I think has helped legitimize it. I certainly don’t blame her for chopra but I’m interested in her role in promoting spirituality/pseudoscience in the US.
I appreciate you bringing the Chopra Epstein information here. I hadn’t known that he was in the files. I’m sure there will be a lot of people that may surprise us or not. I never really resonated with Chopra. So I didn’t really follow him. But everyone with any ties to Epstein needs to be put under a microscope. That’s for damn sure.
I appreciate how your articles stir me to think more deeply. What comes to mind is how Oprah promoted Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz, and Dr. Phil, Elizabeth Gilbert. All have turned out to be shills. Every one of them, including Oprah. All of them rich off of opportunism. If I could go back in time and take back all of the energy I squandered on these people, I gladly would. I have learned to be more discerning about where I place my energy as I have become older, and hopefully, wiser. Thank you, Liz.
"I appreciate how your articles stir me to think more deeply" is the GREATEST compliment you could give me, Linda, thank you! I actually wonder if Oprah has thoughts about her support of someone like Chopra or Dr. Oz....it would be FASCINATING to talk to her about this. My religious studies colleague Kathryn Lofton has a great book titled OPRAH: THE GOSPEL OF AN ICON. Highly recommend. Its an academic book, but fairly accessible.
Don't forget Dr. Phil. Egads.
Oprah is part of the celebrity "club". She is not who she prentends to be..none of them are. Look into what happened to the girls from her school.
What did happen to the girls from her school?
He’s a fraud. The equivalent of Snake Oil Salesman.
if you go googling, you will discover things you don't want to.
Theyre merely bringing up the celebrity who promoted him heavily in context. Its not about her gender or race. Why youre making it about that is strange. Holding people accountable regardless of identity politics is essential.
I feel so foolish.
Why? I don't think you should. Much of what Chopra has taught is valuable. The danger in situations like this is that people throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you benefitted from his books or meditation courses, as I did, then that's great and nothing to be ashamed of.
Another one that I don't see mentioned much is Wayne Dyer. Oprah and Gabby Bernstein rave about him (and call him an enlightened guru etc) - but what I've heard of him makes me shudder! I'm so glad when I see comments with other people realizing it's not all it seems.
O no! What did Wayne dyer do? I have not heard this until now
Read Lissa Rankin’s post on Substack where she shares her experience working with Wayne Dyer.
I also want to know, is he also dodgy?
He’s been dead for quite a while.
I was thinking the same thing.
Oh, and lest we not forget Werner Erhard's EST and dangerously have our "buttons pushed". I was surrounded by EST-ies at my newspaper workplace in my mid 20's and they were relentless pains in the ass trying to emotionally bludgeon me to participate in what to me was a cult.
We humans are drooling suckers for trends. Spiritual-seeking trends, consumer trends, gardening trends (Native Plants ONLY!), food trends, and literally any new shiny thing. We worship anything or anyone that we think will provide relevance into our lives.
Yeah, in my research I’m constantly like “what is wrong with us?”
well, just to add a little less negative perspective... most of those tendencies can be traced back to a behaviour that had a survival function under certain circumstances, but it has gone too far, or stopped being relevant. I can't tell 100% it's always the case, but often it tracks. Thinking in this way has helped me feel a bit more hopeful about humanity & our ability to adapt. We are in an era when we are en masse becoming more aware of many of those patterns. Hopefully from here we can start asking what behaviours make more sense and making better choices about them...
You are "constantly like. . ."????
What happens when resisting trends becomes a trend? Does the whole shebang just blow up?
I had been wondering whether Oprah cared or realised what she was doing. But then this year, Oprah promoted Amy Griffin's book, The Tell, a book about recovering repressed memories. In brief, there are an overwhelming amount of questionable details in the book and it seems to be almost a mirror, 2025 version of Michelle Remembers, the book about recovering repressed memories of satanic abuse that sparked the whole memory wars. There is no chance that Oprah's team did not notice this -- they absolutely willfully again promoted repressed memory pseudoscience. Oprah knows exactly what she's doing.
The NYT recently 'exposed' the whole thing, though I don't agree with the angle they took. They frame it as though Amy stole this story from another woman. That could be possible, but I think they should have focused more on memory research and what we know about the idea of recovering repressed memories. They also didn't cover how the work of Bessel van der Kolk (The Body Keeps the Score) also influenced Amy. Many people don't realise that van der Kolk is a highly controversial figure in the memory space and chapter 13 of TBKS is an extremely dubious account of repressed memory research... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/24/nyregion/amy-griffin-memoir-psychedelic-drugs.html
Woah, this is all so interesting!!! I want to learn more!
It's quite a wild story with so many connections. Another notable point is that Amy is married to a billionaire hedge-fund investor who invested $1million in Rick Doblin's MDMA therapy. He also did underground MDMA therapy with the same underground. They were referred to these guides by Rick, the founder of MAPS/Lykos who tried to get MDMA+therapy approved by the FDA. Rick's "spiritual father" is Stan Grof, (https://digitalcommons.ciis.edu/stanislavgrof2014/12), a psychiatrist turned New Age/Esalen type who created Holotropic Breathwork. Coincidentally, Stan wrote the introduction to Ervin Laszlo's book "What is Reality", with a foreword by Deepak Chopra!
There's an article by Jules Evans with more on The Tell: https://www.ecstaticintegration.org/p/psychedelic-memories-of-childhood . But I also think Jules take on it doesn't connect how much the Grofian worldview/orientation of the underground guides set up the metaphysical orientation to have repressed memories come up (tbc: my substack is entirely about Grof, though, so maybe I'm biased, but justifiably so I think). I used to work as a sexual assault counsellor, and the entire starting point for the MAPS therapy/treatment of PTSD is extremely dubious and could set people up to recover repressed memories.
So glad you linked to Jules’ article. I was about to do just that. He is critical thinker and very aware of the pitfalls/dangers of wholly inadequate training programs, dodgy retreats, and unethical behavior in the psychedelic space (where “repressed memories” often originate). I am incredulous that Oprah would promote Amy’s book. But then… it’s all about the money, marketing, and mutual connections in their elite circles. I see the larger connections now thanks to you, Liz and Jules. And Rick Doblin is practically a caricature at this point.
Is it bad to bring up repressed memories? Not sure what the issue is - naive on this
I know Amy personally as do many of my friends and everyone thought the book had many red flags as did her whole story. Most believe that she did in fact steal the story (as the NYT proposed). Also, when asked by the NYT, Rick Dublin actually denied the likelihood that psilocybin could trigger a repressed memory and he didn’t support that premise of the book.
Ghislaine Maxwell's trial for being a sex offender wss centered around repressed memory. Ghislaine was convicted despite her multiple million dollar defense trying to allege #repressed memory# was controversial. Thereafter physicals and psychologists from all over the world about repressed memor and other sequeake to sexual abuse for decades. Bessel is der Volk has been am esteemed and highly influential physician for years. He lectures worldwide. He has been a renown world wide expert in sexual abuse for generations
Dredging up a vanity published book from 40 years ago is not a credible action.
Oprah has indeed spent decades reporting on sexuaj abuse. She has written books in conjunction with experts on child abuse which were best sellers. Nit picking her tendency to like memoirs is not a valid deliberation on her broad knowledge and commitment to exploring those topics regardless of the controversy.
Elizabeth Gilbert chose to focus on a 12 step program that relies on somewhat dated theories of relationship and addiction. A program she crrtainly believes is accessible to many. Whatever her marketing strategy she was certainky deeply affected by the death of her friend Rays. Raya was a terminally ill drug addicted woman who died in deep distress. Elizabeth Gibert had little to do with that outcome.
⁶It is certainly most disappointing to have someone refer to a vanity published book from 30 years old as a reference point. The fact you can slide that by certain people in this forum as a #concern# is pretty nebulous at best
You should add Tony Robbins to that list. An absolute con artist!
For real? I really enjoyed studying his material! Hated the hours and going until 4am so I don't go to his events any longer but I thought his material was good. Tell me more!
Yes, I am afraid I am for real. He regurgitates books in his format, which happen to cost thousands of dollars. And there’s always more for those willing to pay for the extras. And it is the same song and dance.
Bummer. Thanks for letting me know!
oh gosh yes, awful.
This article and the comments are profound. Thank you. I am an intuitive and rarely get validation or explanation as to why something or someone doesn’t resonate.
I am often left unimpressed or Ickes out by those who have been promoted. I lived myself going against my intuition because that is what predators trained me to do. As I came into my own though I discovered how valuable my intuition is and why they wanted to gaslight me out of it.
I never understood the devotion followers had. The hypnotism they seems to fall under.
Just please tell my Maya Angelou isn’t on anyone’s list.
Jade I am exactly the same. My body repulses at certain people. I have no reason other than a deep intuition - Winfrey, Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Shetty he was particularly bad, Tolle is another. And for some unknown reason the current ‘guru’ Gabor Mate. There’s something so off about him. Then there are others who I am drawn to. I don’t get this hero worship. Discernment is key.
It’s as if people are addicted to giving over their agency. They left religion and just followed new messiahs of their choosing instead of finding the Source inside. Discernment. The exact right word.
exactly what Jesus said..
that... " The Kingdom of God was within You " Luke 17:21
Tolle used to give me the willies while all my friends thought he was the cats arse! I liked Gabor for a minute ten years ago but he puts me off now too. I never liked Chopra. I tried to read his first book. Word salad with no actual directions on how to use his models except pay handsomely for something. He made my skin crawl too.
I am happy to see that I am not alone in these gurus giving me the willies. My bestie met Wayne Dyer and swears by him but I get the willies from his works too. Esther Hicks/Abraham as well. I trust those more than I trust their millions of followers.
Who are you drawn to? Who is ok?
Myself... My own higher Self... I feel that's the direction we are all being pointed into now, go deeper into the root of our own being. Much good luck to you!
Oprah is the most disappointing.
They all made each other rich. It's truly repugnant.
There are so many frauds and shills getting book deals, doing speaking gigs, etc. Our society is built on capitalism rather than integrity and compassion.
In my experience the best spiritual teachers with the most profound personal experience and NOT just theoretical knowledge - are not big names, and are easily overlooked.
Same. I don’t even want to read the books on Oprah’s book club list anymore.
And let's not forget Christiane Northrup, who started as a menopause expert and is now vehemently anti-vax...
That example imho is not exactly in line with the topic of substack. Being anti vax has nothing to do with being a fraud. Any person with some common sense and lots of research will reach the same conclusion :)
" If I could go back in time and take back all of the energy I squandered on these people, I gladly would." I love this, and I agree. But we need to take comfort in the fact that we were able to move past them (and in my case, before I was able to see through them). So many vulnerable people are still clinging to the hope of a better future that is being sold as something that's within reach if they can only believe/buy/work hard enough.
/.
This... I loved Liz Gilbert and then this Summer something shifted as numbers of fellow bipoc people outlined the harm that occurred with Raya and how white women get to write books and make money of these abuses of power and ills, in the name of spiritual transformation.
Yea. That book turned me too. Her patronizing behavior towards Reya was despicable, as well as her know all about addiction and recovery preachiness was nauseating. All making a buck from an Oprah recommended book. Ugh.
Same for me. I’ve also learned to recognize how all the shills mentioned were selling merchandise all along. It’s so disheartening to see how so many are willing to sell out & take advantage of people truly trying to find internal peace, for greed & celebrity.
https://nairlythere.substack.com/p/how-our-heart-sorts-people-before
Please check this out, had written an article about the energy draining people.Would love to hear your comments.
Thanks for the invitation.. I read your Substack and commented there. 😊
Thank you for this thoughtful perspective. A big yes to everything you said, especially this: "What they reveal about us—about what we want, what we're willing to ignore, what we're afraid to face—is the real story."
As a marketing academic, I've studied how marketing preys on consumer vulnerabilities, creating dependencies that promise satisfaction but ultimately reduce wellbeing. Many in the self-help world—Deepak, Joe Dispenza, Jay Shetty—have mastered this: they meet people's fundamental need to end suffering while not requiring them to make the uncomfortable changes sometimes, often needed for real transformation.
This brings to mind the 8th-century Indian Buddhist monk Shantideva, who said (paraphrasing): people desperately want to end their suffering but continue to engage in the very thoughts, behaviors, and patterns that create it.
Did these gurus help some people along the way? I'm sure. Did they increase harm? Also yes.
This is where this kind of self help becomes more dangerous than other kinds of marketplace behaviors. Spiritual materialism is more insidious than other forms because people don't recognize it AS materialism. They consume spiritual books, apps, and workshops thinking they're becoming better people, but without addressing root causes, they're just spiritually bypassing their experience. They feed their ego: "I'm spiritual because I meditate."
I left full-time marketing to teach mindfulness, thinking people need more mindfulness than marketing. Instead, I found that even within the mindfulness world, people resort to marketing tactics for personal gain, regardless of harm to end users.
There ARE genuine teachers—Joseph Goldstein, Thich Nhat Hanh—who've worked selflessly from the original Buddhist teachings: we can become aware of our default habits AND learn the steps to change them. But that requires effort, and it's less popular than the quick fixes from self-care gurus.
You're doing important work educating people about the dark side of what's considered sacred. Have you, or anyone else studied the costs and benefits of the self-help industry? That research is needed.
Shalini--what a rich comment! And totally agree with the idea that quick fixes and simple affirmations are way easier to sell then what I would call the conviction and discipline of devotional practices. Question....am I right to remember that Chopra's academic appointments are actually in business schools? Wondering what you think of that given your background in marketing!
I didn't know that he held academic positions in business schools. Business schools can invite industry folks to teach but no clue if he taught or just held an honorary position.
In my observations, it's not just spirituality-based mindfulness content that suffers from this. I'm frequently irked by the gimickiness of Ryan Holiday's Stoicism content, including his books, and view him as doing philosophical bypassing (instead of spiritual bypassing, since it's entirely secular) in much of it. His marketing background is very obvious to me, as a social scientist, and obnoxious to me as a disabled female Stoic trying to share this philosophy (which has been a core part of my aspects of thriving for the last 30 years) with others who have intersectionality aspects that don't align in practical application ways to what he's putting out. There are a few other, better Stoic writers... almost all of them male, and all of them with privilege-centered blindspots in their work that make me twitch, though William Irvine and Ward Farnsworth are worth reading while remembering that they are coming from a class-privileged white male vantage point that sometimes slips into their writing in ways they're clearly not fully conscious of. But none of those writers have even a tenth of the following that Holiday has, and Holiday's work feeds into Broicsm (Bro Culture with a thin veneer of ancient philosophical wisdom) which constantly annoys me as a BoyMom.
Have you seen similar issues in other contexts? Are you aware of what I'm talking about here? Any ideas of ways to remediate these situations?
Thanks for the comment Ahmie...yes, I see this is a LOT of spaces. In fact my next book BEYOND WELNESS actually starts each chapter with a problematic figure/movement/trend and those chapters range from yoga to psychedelics to to fitness! I think the longevity tech bros are also repeat offenders.....
Yes! I was a devoted listener to the Bulletproof podcast until I realized that every time I listened to Dave Asprey, I wanted to rush out and buy whatever it was his guest was selling, convinced it was going to add another 10 to 20 years to my life. One thing I realized is that these people have studied NLP to persuade their listeners to buy the thing or to sign up for the conference. I don’t trust that.
Been away from Substack working on family stuff for the last several weeks - looking forward to your new book. I hope the audio is available on Hoopla like your "Stealing My Religion" book is, so I can promote it with the economically-diverse (including impoverished) people I am trying to build community with. I'm constantly worried that I'm going to give off vibes of the kind of harmful leader that these problematic figures are. Your work overlaps a lot with what I'm trying to do with rebuilding the availability of neurological co-regulation opportunities for folks. I'm seeing an urgent need of that for my sons' GenZ agemates. They don't know where to look for healthy guidance, and too many of them are getting sucked in by these charlatans.
Ohhh very interested in your upcoming book!!
I can’t wait to read this!
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I hear you and agree with you. Holiday's book was recommended by the leadership at our business school. I haven't read it but understand what you're saying.
I think it's a combination of things: genuine charisma, narcissistic confidence, and an intuitive understanding of what people want to hear. They're not burdened by the humility that comes from actually watching your own mind closely enough to see how little control we have, how much we don't know, how hard real change is.
There's a particular personality type that thrives in this space—someone who believes deeply in their own narrative, who mistakes their own peak experiences or insights for universal truth, and who has the marketing savvy to package it in a way that feels accessible and aspirational. They're not lying, exactly. They genuinely believe they have the answer. And that certainty is magnetic.
Meanwhile, those of us who do the work know that transformation is messy, nonlinear, and requires sustained effort. We know we can't promise results because every person's path is different. We set realistic expectations because we've seen what happens when people are sold false hope. We teach skills systematically because that's what actually creates lasting change.
But here's the brutal truth: uncertainty doesn't sell. Nuance doesn't scale. "This will take years of consistent practice and you'll still struggle sometimes" is not a compelling Instagram caption.
And so we're left with this impossible tension: do good work that serves people deeply, knowing it will never have the reach of the quick-fix gurus? Or compromise our integrity to compete in the same attention economy?
I chose the former. You did too. But it's lonely sometimes, isn't it? Watching people flock to teachers who promise them ease while we're over here saying, "Actually, this is going to be really hard, and I can't guarantee anything except that you'll learn to be with your experience differently."
That's why these conversations are important, and collaborating and uplifting authentic voices has become a priority for me.
Thank you for this comment. I am struggling in this space at the moment. After 16 years as a chiropractor, 6 in the energetic chiropractic world and 3 in the “spiritual” space I burnt out trying to build in this capitalist model.
Watching so many people gain notoriety because they can sell while I live in grey zones.
And now I’m trying to build something new, but I feel the isolation, like a village medicine woman without a village.
Keeping faith that my work will reach the right people isn’t the problem. Faith is easy, but faith doesn’t feed my children.
I feel that "like a village medicine woman without a village" in my core, as well as the stress about feeding our children. Here with you, Mama, in whatever ways that can matter. You are not alone.
Capitalism sucks. Communism is unfortunately too easy to turn into a cult that does harm. Finding some middle ground for my descendants to partake of feels like my life's work these days, and it's exhausting.
Hi Leandra … I am a counselor and energy healer and I know what you mean. Perhaps sharing a village community would benefit us all?
I just followed you because of this comment - I want to continue this conversation. Hell yes with the loneliness. I have five sons, ages 21, 18, 15, 13, and 9. The older four are ALL falling prey to some of this nonsense at various times. I can only buffer for them so much, and sometimes they run full-force into the guardrails that I've put in place (which is part of what's had me away from Substack for the last few weeks - guardrail reinforcement as well as holiday distractions, please excuse the tardiness of my reply).
I have comments on my Substack paywalled just to keep the moderating labor minimized. If you subscribe for free and I don't comp your membership, send me a message reminding me of where we've encountered each other before and I'll comp the membership as soon as I see it. That goes for anyone who reads this.
Thanks for this great comment - I thought I was the only one who thought Ryan Holiday was shilling for Bro-stoticism!
I get so frustrated that he almost never features female authors in his monthly reading lists. I’ve stopped subscribing.
I think part of it is that there are very few women writing - most of us seem to be too busy doing the work of living a good life, and the invisible labor involved in that sucks up too much time with vacuuming and dishes to do the authoring and self-promotion to get featured. :/ That's the struggle I've been in for the last month.
The few female Stoic authors I know of either have no kids, or only 2. The ones who have kids give a whiff of class privilage when it comes to help with housework & childcare that I do not have access to, plus I have twice as many kids as they do (I have five sons ages 9-21, all of them still living at home with their father, paternal grandparents, and me - we've been a 3 generation household since 2006 and sandwich generation stress is often overwhelming even when there's no commute involved in the eldercare).
I’d love to get your recommendations on other writers/books on stoicism.
I always try to recommend freely available content, particularly in the current economy, so that's my focus right now. William B. Irvine is my favorite modern Stoic, and he's active on Substack (I don't know how to tag in here). He has a new book coming out in January, and his "A Slap in the Face" is available as an audiobook free on Hoopla if you've got access to a public library that offers that service. Ward Farnsworth's books are available on Hoopla in both audiobook and ebook (his "The Practicing Stoic" is an excellent primer). On YouTube, Vox Stoica (who I also support on Patreon) is a good source - his "Summary of the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius" is so good that I bought it on Audible specifically so I can set my Alexa device to play it twice a day (as I'm getting moving in the morning, and as I'm winding down at night) to keep my mindset framed. He narrated "Practical Stoicism" by Grey Freeman and has that available for free on his YT channel as well (also so good that I bought it on Audible to be able to get it playing hands-free when I need to recenter my mind). Stoic Coffee Break podcast by Erick Cloward is good.
All of these lack a female perspective. I'm trying to carve out time to add my voice to that, for those reasons, but as a mom it's hard to carve out time for it. I'm more active on Facebook than on here, and most of what I post is publicly viewable with friends-of-friends able to comment. I'm trying to move my long-form writing done on a physical keyboard (most of what is posted on FB is from a mobile device) to my Intersectional Stoicism Substack. None of the content is paywalled on my Substack but comments are paywalled just to keep from having me distracted by moderating nonsense - drop me a message if you subscribe for free and I don't comp your membership to let you comment. I'm not trying to make money off of my Substack, just don't know how else to balance the time & attention it'll demand. Anyone who is contributing authentic thoughtfulness is welcome into the conversation for free.
I agree with a lot of what your saying, but I don’t agree on Joe Dispenza’s work. It can be used superficially, but his Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself guides the reader thru this work that you are talking about. The whole book is about becoming aware enough of who you are and then working to dissolve those habits And replace them with a new vision of how you want to interact with the world. You can’t do the meditation part until you’ve identified your character flaws first. Does he still make a shit ton of money off of people? Yes indeed, which has caused me to resist his work. It’s still spiritual/psychological capitalism, but that’s the framework of our entire society. How do you reach your audience of consumers, if you don’t give them something to consume? It would be interesting to see if this can ever be done. Even Christianity has been sold to us by Paul and his amazing PT Barnum trickery. We don’t know anything else.
Thank you, Janet. You're raising exactly the tension I sit with constantly. I have no doubt that Dispenza, Chopra, and others have helped many people along the way—just as I said in my original comment. And you're right that if his book guided you to become aware of your habits and work to change them, that's meaningful.
Your question—"How do you reach your audience of consumers if you don't give them something to consume? Can this ever be done differently?"—is the question I am very interested in. It's the paradox I've wrestled with in my research and in building my own practice.
Sitting with all these contradictions led me to a reflection published here today that speaks directly to why we're drawn to certain teachers and how to discern authentic guidance from spiritual entrepreneurship. It explores the frameworks I use to distinguish between teachers operating from a service model versus an empire model and would love to hear what it brings up for you: [https://substack.com/home/post/p-179566278]
To your point about capitalism—yes, we all operate within this system. But I believe there's a spectrum between fair exchange (charging sustainably for genuine value) and extraction (using sophisticated marketing to exploit people's suffering while overpromising outcomes). The former is necessary. The latter can cause harm.
Can it be done differently? I'm trying to find out.
I've also explored this academically in my research on expanding mindfulness from individual stress reduction to collective sustainable wellbeing in the context of marketing and consumer wellbeing. If you're interested, here's the peer-reviewed work: https://doi.org/10.1111/joca.12542. Happy to email you the full paper if you like.
I’m a Sedona local and Dr Joe makes an appearance here just about every year with Greg Braden. Lets just say after awhile you hear a lot of the behind the scenes chit chat about these people and you couldn’t pay me to attend Joes workshop after what I’ve learned about his character.
I agree with the original text. “ we created this”. People are looking for a beacon of light! If you pay a huge amount of money to attend an event, that is a red flag! So many believe they , “are worth it”! Mel Robbins is another one I have a cringe factor with. It’s all about the brand and what is selling. There are many wonderful “thought, or spiritual leaders out there Not selling their “brand”. It is up to us to not fuel their egos.
I’m curious at to what you’ve learned about his character?
Paying big bucks is certainly a red flag for me, also, where the masses congregate is a red flag.
Anything to add? I'm here for the tea.
Interesting you bring up Paul, the self proclaimed Jesus promoter. A recent foray back to organized church attendance lasted 2 years. Then I was out. Can’t get past my belief they’ve made JC an idol, promoting propaganda he never said and how do we know since there was such a dearth of ‘present time’ records for what actually happened. And despite him saying he was pointing the way and not a god himself.
No pressure, just in case it helps you find community that nourishes you - consider looking into Unitarian Universalists for "organized" church. I'm a lay community minister in that denomination; it's omnist not specifically Christian (the minister of the congregation my family attends self-labels as a UU Buddhist, there are many UU Atheists, and many other faith blends - one of my newest UU friends is a UU Jew - and there are several UU Christians in my congregation). My mother was raised United Church of Christ, which might also be a good place to look for community that isn't so idolizing of JC while being more focused on Christianity if that's what you need in your life.
Just putting this out there in case you're struggling with loneliness.
This piece stirred something in me, in a good and not so good way. I agree with so much of your critique around the dangers of idolization and the shadow side of the Western guru archetype. At the same time, I kept thinking about the people who genuinely experienced real inner transformation through these teachings, and how revelations like this can make them question the validity of their own growth. I ended up writing a companion response exploring that tension- the value of the teaching even when the teacher is deeply flawed, and why these figures resonate so strongly in a spiritually starved culture.
Sharing it here in case it adds another layer to the conversation.
https://open.substack.com/pub/peshealth/p/when-the-guru-falls-your-transformation?r=6xctd7&utm_medium=ios
I started practicing yoga in 1987 in a small studio in the Fine Arts Building in Portland. It was a little known thing. The teacher was forever warning us about the guru syndrome that guru simply means teacher and the "guru" is found inside of us. Stressed yoga being about service and serving others the ultimate goal. Several years later certifications were created, train8ng cost a lot, and the cerification was a requirement everywhere. Yoga got famous, yoga fashion very popular and the essence of the practice got lost. Another ancient discipline commodified,sad
I have had similar teachers.
‘You don’t need a guru’
I dislike how it’s split up - meditation, gymnastics, mindfulness, breathwork , it works all together synergistically as you do your practise - and so much comes from self practise.
Two of my teachers learnt directly from krisnamanchari and desikachar(excuse spelling auto correct) - elusive, blunt but woooaaahhh ✨
I love this poem too. I frequently give it to new parents ✨
I’ve found similar things in the yoga world. It’s been sitting in the sutras and being honest about my own life and seeing all of it that has allowed me to evolve. Not this, not that, just is.
A lot of western yoga even when taught by eastern lineages isn’t even yoga. We do it the same way we do life. Separated from everything else and rush, rush, rush. It’s a stretching class at best with a circus contortion progression pathway and a rest at the end.
Agree Carla. I see the parallels in the yoga world as well. Where as the Patanjali Yoga sutra describes the eight limbs of yoga, in the West, yoga focuses on the postures. Just like mindfulness focuses only on meditation and the rest of the eight fold path is forgotten, which includes right thinking, speech, and livelihood.
Yoga is to be lived experience, not just something we do in a dance class which requires discipline because bodies must look a certain way for an audience. There is no audience for yoga practice. It's called practice because perfection isnt the goal, leading a life of service as a continuously evolvimg human is. The practice is the goal. Yogis practice until all humans perfect body mind and spirit
Yep. Do your practise.
All is not coming.
It’s already here ✨
Thank you, I interesting! I was just wondering about joe dispenza, his thing is to change thought patterns so isn't that "doing the work"?
Great question, Helena. I've never participated in Dispenza's courses and can't speak to the benefits people experience. They must offer something valuable or people wouldn't return or recommend them. My resistance has more to do with what he's marketing and how he's framing the work.
When he talks about "demystifying the mystical" and teaches meditation to create abundance by changing thought patterns—yes, there's work involved. But it ignores the deeper work of being human: examining the root causes of our suffering, which lie in attachment and greed, and understanding our responsibilities as interconnected beings.
Here's what concerns me:
His approach suggests that problems lie in our habitual thinking patterns—which is partially true—but it ignores the systemic issues that create those patterns in the first place. It bypasses questions like:
-Why are people stressed, sick, and struggling?
-What are the collective conditions creating individual suffering?
-How do our consumption choices affect others and the planet?
-What's our responsibility beyond personal optimization?
In focusing solely on individual manifestation and abundance, teachers like Dispenza (and Chopra) contribute to a worldview that prioritizes individualistic, self-centered wellbeing—often at the expense of collective wellbeing. And ironically, because we're profoundly interconnected, this approach doesn't even serve individual wellbeing in the long run.
An example:
Yes, I could "manifest a Ferrari" if I really wanted one. But if it's contributing to greenhouse gases more than a hybrid or electric car, am I learning to make conscious choices? Am I waking up to my highest human potential or going into a deeper sleep of our separation?
This is also Liz's broader critique of many secular versions of mindfulness and spirituality: when we strip out the wisdom and ethical components, we're left with techniques that help individuals cope with—or even exploit—harmful systems, rather than transform them.
That's the gap. And that's why, even if people find temporary relief or benefit, I believe this approach ultimately falls short of what authentic practice offers: liberation through understanding our interconnectedness and acting skillfully from that awareness.
Does this clarify my concern?
This whole discussion got me thinking about gurus, suffering, and how we can find teachers to trust, ultimately trusting our inner knowing. You can read it here: https://open.substack.com/pub/samalife/p/why-we-seek-gurus-and-how-to-know?r=2rpo9o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
So great that this thread expanded toward inclusivity, connection and wholeness. It clarifies how ‘gurus’ and other notables the marketing aspect of their shticks. I have oriented myself to inclusion of the earth and all her interconnections as a model for looking at humans. Testing teachings based on inclusion users the bar for me. The older I’ve gotten the more I find no boundaries when I take the time to see and be. Thank you for sharing these common sources here. 💫
Right - look at nature 🏆
We are nature too.
I’ve been looking at nature when mothering as we move into the teens.
The tigeress that gets a bit antsy at hijinx when her cubs are old enough to learn to fend for themselves… 😆
Like Linda, I also made the connection with the other people Oprah promoted who have shown us who they really are… it just feels like 2025 has been the year the mask came off. Painful to see people I admired, and inspired me for who they truly are but at the same time making me realize that the rich are not people to aspire to be. I now look in my community for spiritual guidance, inspiration and love
Ordinary people who everyday live through suffering in a real way not in the made up way these fools do. We don’t need them, we need each other
I love this sentiment: we need each other. Well put!
Your article suggests that society has lost its way more than we think.
My mission has been to expose our corrupt schools and the fact that they would unravel democracy. In 2010 I received a call from Oprah’s researcher with my 2008 book in his hands. He had my book because a member of my organization knew Maya Angelou and brought it to her home. She sent me a thank you note for my book. She obviously sent my book to Oprah.
All these years I thought Oprah didn’t want to take on all that power as this is a huge conspiracy against the people. I accepted this was too much for one person—even her. Now I’m wondering. She could have made me famous and saved democracy rather than….
This is disappointing. At least we know Maya Angelou was authentic. I’ll hang on to that!
It proves how hard it is for people to not live transactionally. It also proves how much we need authentic schools, what we don’t have. Check out WhiteChalkCrime.com and EndTeacherAbuse.org. It’s a miracle there are as many good people as there are! We do need to work together.
And this very statement, made manifest somehow in our highly individualized lives, might be the very medicine we need to stop from doping out and making these people bigger than life.
I also wonder what this is like for her. She’s also struggled with very personal things in her life and I wonder how much of this was just us being taken along for the ride as she tries to figure herself out. And along the way things went awry. There’s a part of me that has compassion for her, doesn’t mean I’m ok with it, but compassion.
Love this comment too, can we lose our fascination with exceptionalism and value the ordinary everyday world and its people.
Beautifully stated, Lucy.
Thank you for your excellent analysis.
I was deeply embedded in New Age/neoHindu spirituality for over two decades before realizing I was a victim of a talented con artist. Now I can see “gurus” for what they are and was wondering when Deepak Chopra would be revealed to be a fraudulent grifter. 90+ books? If his teachings are so good, why do we need so many of them?
Spirituality without understanding psychology is a recipe for imbalanced power dynamics and harmful guru worship.
I was also shocked by the number of books. And you have a good point when you ask, why would you need that many books to get his ideas in teaching across?
That sounds like quite a journey, Joelle. I can relate to the extent that I grew up with a fundamentalism that was normalized (Christian in my case)-so can empathize with what it can be like to see cult-like beliefs from the inside: and then later, to question everything until it is significantly stripped away. It's quite a head-trip. But without even the mildest suggestion that this makes any kind of brainwashing okay: I am grateful to those insights in the world that come about from such experiences, and are needed in our culturally fragmented time. What has your experience been like? / I like your comment about spirituality without psychology being dangerous. Just curious: have you read Ken Wilber? He argues for a similar thing: that there are multiple forms of maturity that contribute towards what it is to grow or be enlightened...
I share your insight, Lucy. While I would not wish my experience on any young woman (or new adult), it has given me insider knowledge into how people are deceived and manipulated. If it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't have thought it was possible. I had been trained as a girl growing up in New York City to be aware of physical and sexual violence, but nothing had prepared me for psychological and spiritual abuse. Learning from other cult survivors (especially Daniella Mestyanek Young) and reading survivor memoirs, both cult and other forms of abuse, have been hugely helpful in developing my understanding. I haven't read Ken Wilber. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it.
Thanks for getting back to me Joelle. And I hear you. It can be quite the Matrix-moment type of experience.. so sorry that you went through that kind of complexity too. With Ken Wilber: I found him a great resource for mapping how cycles of development intersect, and how growth of all kinds can remain inclusive of learning throughout all stages. / And thanks for the Daniella Mestayanek Young suggestion. I haven’t read her yet: but she sounds great. I’ll have to look here up:>
She’s fantastic. Her published memoir is Uncultured, and her nonfiction book, The Culting of America, comes out on Jan 21, along with a companion deconstruction workbook. Her work focuses on analysing the cult paradigm, regardless of whether the group calls itself that or not. It was hugely validating for me when she clearly identified my story as cultic indoctrination. She’s very active on TikTok and Instagram.
Do you have a favorite/recommended Ken Wilber book?
If I could post anonymously, I would be more bold in what I have say about this. However, let's just say I am a formally trained MD who has also studied Ayurveda in depth and been part of spiritual communities.
The era of the sage on the stage is OVER.
Even if it takes a generation or two for that understanding to grow.
The points you bring up will reach more traction because they are rooted in very fundamentally important developmental aspects for us as a collective.
Self agency and being in the messy, more uncomfortable parts is how we can move through and digest the breadth of uncomfortable conversations that need to happen.
There is a tier of these men who teach about health and wellness that are remarkably incongruous in their positioning. Instead through a guise of this and that, they strive for power and prestige without ever pausing to linger in a question if harm was done.
SO MUCH more to be said though for now I’ll hold off.
You have articulated enough powerful sentiment I'll be sharing this post with professional friends with whom I have spoken extensively about this.
Thanks for you comment! I take you are a practitioner of Ayurveda (or did you leave that behind?). I ask because I have really loved learning about it/and I'm a fan which is why Chopra's version always seemed so diluted...
I am an integrative MD and still learn and share extensively around Ayurveda. Chopra was not my first teacher - it was Dr Lad who character has been beyond reproach from my pov. It’s a potent and powerful system of living and healing which in fact informs much of modern wellness culture and lifestyle medicine (vis-a-vis Dean Ornish who had a Vedic teacher).
Dr Lad was a teacher of mine too and I am an Ayurvedic Practitioner and Bodyworker.
And I have nothing good to say about the Ayurvedic Institute and Dr Lad any longer. He is full of parlor tricks to me.
He supports vaccines and transgenderism. And I was told he is owned by an assistant teacher while I studied with him in India. Owned by whom? I do not know. And I definitely do not trust the new owners of the school.
My greatest teacher of Ayurveda is not famous and taught me the true gold in Ayurveda, the stuff I can bring back to the people, the simplicity, the nectar.
Dr Lad lives and teaches in my area now. And last time I saw him here, I was very surprised what came out of his mouth.
That is disappointing to hear, and I’m aware that the Ayurveda and spiritual communities hold both profound wisdom and, at times, complicated dynamics. My own study with of Ayurveda included time with deeply humble teachers in India as well as individuals who were more invested in performance or manipulating Western fascination. Learning it in the west continues to be very challenging - look at the politics now with NAMA. It taught me that discernment is essential.
That said, I want to be clear: a teacher’s views on vaccines or transgender people are not measures of their integrity in Ayurveda or their capacity to support others in their self healing or disease management. Those are personal, modern-day issues that each individual navigates for themselves, and they aren’t a litmus test for “true” or “false” teaching or healer.
What matters to me is the depth of knowledge, humility, and alignment in how we choose to serve others. We each ultimately have to find the teachers who resonate with us and cultivate the wisdom within ourselves.
Thanks Jae…this is a very good example of what a real teacher does and does not look like.
I love the comment “the sage on the stage” is over
Me too! It’s sticks.
When it comes to men, they are privileged in all societies, and as such, they are never asked by anyone, let alone their own self, “am I doing harm?”. Further, when they become financially successful they attribute this to being better and smarter and think that they have earned it, I.e. there is no luck, nepotism, etc that helped them along the way. Then, the ego, which is already too large in most men, grows even larger and quickly they become lost to humility. There may be a few exceptions, but very few.
Beware the prophet that makes a profit
When will we finally listen to women?
Thank you for this - your work reminds us that accountability is part of spiritual maturity.
And maybe the harder truth is this: we’ve shaped — or allowed — the very gurus we now have to confront.
Yep, we created the monsters under our yoga mats!
I love that you went here: “Third, we get honest about our own complicity. What were we hoping to gain from teachers like Chopra? What shortcuts were we hoping to take?” What responsibilities were we hoping to avoid? This is the powerfully perspective we need to have. Thank you for sharing this.
Totally! easy to blame others….but we play a role in these spiritual “influencers”
yeah, it’s delicate because you don’t want to blame victims, but I really felt like in that situation his sexual misconduct was the culmination of a long line of micro misconducts that everyone just said “trust the teacher” about. It was such a learning experience. And same with Deepak Chopra. And I am pointing the finger at myself, in both instances.
this is a REALLY good point, and I hope I don't come across as victim blaming. I have in mind less people who get pulled into some of this abusive relationships/communities and more the fact that folks like me (progressive, SBNR, seekers) love to blame "the guru" when really the American Spiritual Wellness industry has just been giving us what we say we wanted--a lot of short cuts, personal curation, quick fixes, promises of certainity, etc. and THAT create empire like Chopra's (and then we are like, ugh, he's creepy). But those of us who are self-righteous? I think it helps to consider our role in creating the monsters under our expensive hot yoga mats.
No you don’t! I just know from experience actually trying to talk in community about this when abuse happens it gets real sensitive around that real fast, which, fair. But also, we need to talk about it.
Totally. I left a sangha because of teacher misconduct and this is how I felt about that situation too. Yeah he is a problem but he is not the only problem. This community’s culture around him was a BIG problem.
THIS!
Excellent analysis. To use religious language (proud Methodist here), what so many of us want is a messiah. We want someone to reassure us that we aren’t the problem, and that no matter what the problem is they can fix it for us. But, as you noted, we don’t want to do the work. We want the messiah to it for us which reduces us to simple consumers. There is no liberation in such a relationship.
I like how Huston Smith put this: there’s no religious life without conviction and discipline.
Well said.🥰
Have to say, I’ve really been wondering this year if the whole wellness search is keeping me stuck & longing for a place that is unattainable, vs working thru my real life. Your points about lack of accountability and the vague nature of spirituality are thought provoking and refreshing. In business we used to say, follow the money and wellness is big business these days.
The vagueness really drives me personally crazy…. Like they are saying so much but actually nothing at all.
The dialog between Sam Harris and Deepak Chopra really brings up what's you're saying and Sam calls him out for it! Yet like you said there will be people who believe in him and will ignore all this. Did you see the documentary his son made? Decoding Deepak. Curious what you thought about that...
True wellness comes from studying our thoughts, emotions, and actions in real life. Yes we can go on retreats or even retreat daily for meditation but the purpose of that is to clear the clutter to see the default patterns in everyday life that are causing stress and suffering and we're learning the skills and strategies to transform those habits by bringing real change to how we live, learn, consume, relate...
@ailey jolie really goes into how embodiment has been hijacked by the wellness industry
I’ve always found Chopra’s warmed-over mysticism smarmy and annoying, and these revelations about his life do not surprise me at all.
for me what bugged me was always the very thing that made him scaleable: the sound-biteness of it all
Exactly.
I didn’t make him rich — never trusted him
I have to admit I have a number of his books!
I’ve been following Chopra for 25 years.! I do like what he says, promotes. Have a number of his books. But this Epstein connection blows my mind. How could I have been so naive? Feet of clay?
Excellent piece. You absolutely nail this.
Glad it was worth my insomnia!
I owe my Master's degree to "productive use of insomnia," so I'm feeling strong kinship to you right now, Liz!
It is the WORST!!! ;-)
What is outlined here is a large part of what is shaping the community-building work that I'm trying to do, to support our needs for neurological co-regulation as a social species. SO MUCH harm has been done by guru-types (within and outside of religious institutions, including purely secular ones), and my efforts sometimes trigger trauma responses in those who have encountered the kind of abuses by these men. I'm a little more successful at this effort, I think, because I'm female -- but at the same time, the roles that my femaleness has me in beyond this community work take up a lot of my time & attention so my reach is minimal. I am often frustrated by how these men build audiences that exploit vulnerable people while claiming to be healers... meanwhile I'm over here in a not-totally-financially-secure situation with my family feeling unethical to put a cash-price on access to my services because the population I serve with the highest level of skill (disabled people and parents of minor children) are often more financially vulnerable than I am.
I'd love to explore ideas of how to build structures of accountability and "loving criticism" to build this work in healthy, sustainable ways that are accessible to people with the kinds of wisdom that come from embodied experience (but not financial access). I cannot afford to purchase memberships into a bunch of different organzations that claim to provide accountability frameworks to protect vulnerable seekers, other than the one that I'm a member of (Unitarian Universalist Society for Community Ministries -- aka UUSCM; anyone who ever has issue with the way I conduct myself can contact them to be put in touch with their Good Officer and I have accepted that accountability/oversight relationship as a condition of my membership). What I've been spending time on is doing as much personal vetting of various available experts/spiritual directors/life coaches/etc that advertise their services and building what I hope are reciprical "loving critic" relationships with them, so I can more confidently refer people to resources that are less likely to harm them AND be a person that they can turn to for support/mediation if harm happens anyway. That is within my capacities and control to offer, at least, but it's a LOT of work.
This is one of the clearest explanations I’ve seen of how charismatic spirituality fills the exact void our culture creates. It’s not really about Chopra at all, it’s about our craving for transformation without accountability, depth without sacrifice, and meaning without discomfort. You articulated that dynamic with precision, and it’s exactly the blind spot that allows spiritual figures to operate without ethical guardrails.
Thanks Nicole!
I’m confused by the animosity toward Oprah. She isn’t promoting Dr Phil, Oz, and the like now. She was awakening and exploring her spirituality in front of the world. She was sharing what she herself was exploring, and in doing so, she woke many of us up to exploring our deeper selves. I think it’s ok to change your mind along the way as you grow on your journey.
I think we all benefit from exploration and then tuning into what feels right for us and ignoring what doesn’t. I appreciated her public exploration. She isn’t in charge of the evolution of the people she had as guests on her show. It’s ok to change our minds. To take what resonates and let go of what doesn’t. She herself, like us, and all of these people, are just spiritual beings have our own human experiences.
Most of this I agree with. Oprah is first and foremost, a business woman, and she is great at that. And certainly she didn’t know where where she platformed would end up and im sure disagrees a lot of them in terms of their values and politics. But she’s also attracted to pseudoscience, and I think has helped legitimize it. I certainly don’t blame her for chopra but I’m interested in her role in promoting spirituality/pseudoscience in the US.
I appreciate you bringing the Chopra Epstein information here. I hadn’t known that he was in the files. I’m sure there will be a lot of people that may surprise us or not. I never really resonated with Chopra. So I didn’t really follow him. But everyone with any ties to Epstein needs to be put under a microscope. That’s for damn sure.